Hud ( ) was sent to Ad and after their destruction, Thamud inherited the land. The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the land. They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. [28] The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. According to the Online Corpus of the Inscriptions of Ancient North Arabia (OCIANA) at the University of Oxford: Thamudic is a name invented by nineteenth-century scholars for large numbers of inscriptions in ANA alphabets which have not yet been properly studied. As their material wealth increased so, too, did their evil ways while their virtue decreased. Personallhy, I think that number is too soon. Thanks for the article and yea I see no problem. 10.can al hijr be somewhere else like al ula The Nabateans who made the carvings in Madain Saleh and Petra, as well as other Arab groups like the Dedanites/Lihyanites, are their successors. ___Fatwa. Routledge. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. So Allah sent a camel with the simple command: Dont harm her. Have not read their own bibles. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. I have yet to find a shred of evidence of a dead body that was placed in any of the recesses in the walls. The Arabs then could see Thamud dwellings but we today cannot. Yusuf Ali. Change). Ad and Thamud were two great civilizations destroyed by God due to their excessive wickedness. However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. We should look at the original Arabic for word though to fully understand. [27] Both tribes are of great reputed antiquity and, according to traditional Arab genealogists, are two of the four ba 'ida, or extinct tribes. Instead, the camel is killed by a certain "accursed Amar", and the camel's foal stands upon a rock and curses Thamud, leading to the tribe's annihilation except for a single lame woman who is spared to spread the message of the destruction. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. The expedition of Tabuk does identify the dwellings and ruins of a destroyed nation of Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria. They are called "Skulls" because it is thought that the skull is the most important part of the body, and the majority of Arab tribes are descended from these major tribes.[37][38][39][40][41]. Both groups of people were located on the Arabian Peninsula. I look forward to your response my dear brother. 2. Yes, I understood but if you read my comment, youll see that this problem is addressed. And Ad and Thamud-it must be clear to you from their dwelling places! Akkadians As is the usual case, the Christians are, 1. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. [Quran11:6168(Abdel Haleem)], The Islamic exegetical tradition adds detail to the Quran's account. They mistreated the lower classes and worshiped others besides Allah. Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. Mostafa Badawi, in his book Ancient Prophets of Arabiasays thatthe people ofThamdlived in the 8th century BCE in the al-Hijr region and were destroyed. Thamud were destroyed Thus, at the end, the people of al-Hijr are mentioned. Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: . Like does 89:9 mean what thamud used too do like example pharoh killed people on stakes or does it mean what they have done like example the pyramids. It was these nine families that cause much of the problems for Salih. Nabateans built over them means in general sense; it does not mean that each and every building was replaced by the Nabateans. Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. 2. Some of these questions were sincere, but most of the time they were just trying to trip him up. After the given time was over, an earthquake shook the land violently and destroyed the people of Thamud in one cry. He sent Prophet Hud (AS) to the Aad, and Prophet Salih (AS) to the Thamud. Not only did they reject them, they mocked, ridiculed, and in the case of Salih (AS) they even tried to kill him. Of course, when they challenged Allah and His Messenger like this, they were just inviting destruction. [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. They also could have written inscriptions on the many structures that already existed. Im also inclined to believe that these nine families were the direct descendents of those believers who escaped the land of the Aad with Hud. This poses problematic. MALIK'S MUWATTA, BOOK 9: Shortening the Prayer || __ - . Beni Hassan defeated both Berbers and Black Africans in the region, pushing them southwards to the Senegal river while the Arab tribes settled in Mauritania. The Akkadians are the Arameans who are the Chaldeans who are the Nabateans who absorbed The Amorites. Ignore the entire thing and continue to spread their deception and lies. Are these tourist sites now identified at Madian Saleh the same as those we see discussed in the saheeh ahadith during the Tabuk expedition or is that a different location because these sites are identified as built by Nabataens and not Thamud and are considered much later than Thamud people (if we consider the finds to be absolutely authentic that these are Nabataens who built them. The coloring of (sedentary culture) established itself firmly. Most decent Muslims would never do such a thing, but there are many misguided people who do. Eventually, they demanded proof for what Salih was saying. They are aws and athiri in origin with element of arphaxad And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. We have to be open to the idea that a person living thousands of years ago will have a different concept of a place of dwelling than we, in the 21st century, do. I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. The ruins were identified by the Prophet (s) as belonging to those who wronged themselves, without ascribing them to the very first tribe of Thamud. Instead, they tried to engage Salih in debate. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. Eph'al instead speculates that the Thamd and other Arab tribes may have made arrangements with Sargon to trade in Samaria, which Assyrian historians embellished as submission. Can someone please answer 89:9 because Im really stuck on this verse. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. [Qur'an . A number of them branched out, which later became independent tribes (sub-tribes). Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the term could possibly mean ruined too. For one, Allah certainly mentions that the Thamud were successors to the Aad. They may believe in Allah and may even worship Him in some ways. The word atharan or assar as loosely written in Urdu literally means effects or reactions or remnants left behind as an escape of a crime scene where clues or signs point to. Now imagine if people arrive from Latin America, find Mount Rushmore, and make a few inscriptions on it. Witch out of these 7 does it sound more what the verses are saying or does it mean something other than these 7 Allah says: `Say, O Muhammad, to these idolators who disbelieve in the message of truth that you have brought: If you turn away from that which I have brought to you from Allah, then I warn you of the punishment of Allah like the . In addition to building gigantic structures, the Aad were also conquerors. So nothing availed them [from] what they used to earn. Yes both Ad and thamud left dwelling places as opposed to some other Nations mentioned in the Quran but again the reference is generic to many other Nations not mentioned in the book that came to other parts of the world etc. The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. My people, this camel belongs to God, a sign for you, so leave it to pasture on God's earth and do not harm it, or you will soon be punished." A Reminder of the Story of 'Aad and Thamud by Ibn Kathir, taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 8 Darussalam 2000 As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right and they said: 'Who is mightier than us in strength?' See they not that Allah Who created them was mightier in strength than them. Well, next to nothing. If they were made for dead bodies, it stands to reason that we should find at least one dead body in them. We do not believe in the Bible the way it is today. If anyone has evidence of at least one dead body having been found in the recesses, Im open to change my mind. Their dwellings remained but very partially In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. Create a free website or blog at WordPress.com. Part 1_ The story of Musa. That these are the people of Aad, is hinted by a Nabataean inscription in Wadi Ramm, at a temple dedicated to the goddess Allat. Certainly many of these ancient civilizations were advanced for their times and certainly more advanced than the Arabs as they had very little structures and civilization development and they were tribal societies and not big cities. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. Before sending the punishment on them, Allah sent two prophets to these nations. Ok thanks jazzakkallah last questions and ill leave it at that what do you mean not on the surface and is 89:9 saying the Arabs could still see those buildings because it says (the rocks it uses al the why not just say rocks and what does it mean by rocks does it mean houses or mountains thanks Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. While every effort has been made to follow citation style rules, there may be some discrepancies. He said, O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. They were 6 meters tall! copyright@ Atowar Rahman Salafi || year 2021, may, @Copyright_ Atowar Rahman Salafi They built buildings on the land and also carved them in hills. Can it be said that the Thamud made wells and their successors i.e. [27:49]. The Thamd are infrequently mentioned in contemporary indigenous Arabian sources, although two Safaitic inscriptions carved some time between the first century BCE and the fourth century CE refer to "the year of the war between Gm and the tribe of Thamd [snt rb gm l md]". Take your time and let it sink in: 1. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. As for the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were not Thamud, I think this is rather unwarranted. They felt that their habitations would, somehow, secure them from destruction. Allah doesnt need you. From some understanding, it is derived that Thamud were an ancient Arab people well before Musa (as) and possibly well before Ibrahim (as) and hence the tombs (no dwellings to be seen in the present day ruins) must be very ancient and not recent like the Nabataeans. due to the belief as mentioned in the Quran that warners were sent to all Nations. Thank you for answering my questions thanks I just have 2 more questions then Im done then ill leave it jazzakkallah Let us know if you have suggestions to improve this article (requires login). So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. 12. Verily, Thamud disbelieved in their Lord. And indeed (their destruction) is clearly apparent to you from their (ruined) dwellings. So they concluded that the Nabateans did constructed them. But as well see below, archaeological and literary records place them firmly in Northern Arabia/Jordan, well after the death of Jesus (33 AD). "[22] The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period, especially the first century CE. Allah mentions how there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society. Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them, 4. Chaldeans formed when actual tribe of thamud perished so you are not correct . However this would not explain why the Prophet () referred to the houses as Thamuds dwellings. What the Prophet () and the Sahaba went through during Tabuk was overall the joint place of Thamud and Nabateans and more specifically the exact well from where the she-camel drank. And when you strike, you strike as tyrants.Chapter 26, Verse 130. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. They said, "li, We used to have such great hope in you. Yusuf Ali: But if they turn away, say thou: "I . So they used to carve and not they still carve. Does 22:45 say thamud castles and palaces are empty in the present tense with the well or is this verse talking about something else, 13. It is large enough to house individuals, should they have chosen to live inside them. Source: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih, . When Salih began to preach monotheism, the Thamud demanded that he prove his prophethood by bringing forth a pregnant camel from solid rock. [11] An important exception is a temple at al-Ruwfa in northwestern Saudi Arabia, built by the Thamd themselves in the 160s CE. The Middle verse in chapter (11) of the New Testament says:" He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." The Middle verse in chapter (11) of the . Hence, they didnt engage in long, drawn out debates with Hud. The Aad and the Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the Quran. Some Muslims have mistakenly equated sites such as these with the first Thamud of the Quran, but it is believed by archaeologists that a different group of people called the Nabataeans, in fact, built some of these sites. If accurate, the Prophet Salih (s) would have lived many generations and perhaps centuries before Moses. Meaning ibn kathir thought these tombs were built by thamud as well but got it wrong, I agree also Im of the opion the hadith witch says dont enter the dwellings I think the prophet said dont enter the lands not houses because there are only 4 hadith witch mention that and 3 of them doesnt have the arabic word for dwelling there any way thats why dwelling is in brackets also the one hadith what does mention dwelling in arabic misken can mean land any way because it is used in the quran and there are some places it is translated as dwelling places not literally houses so Im of the opion the prophet was saying dont enter the land and even if it did mean houses it could be that there were a few bricks in the valley plain there and that is what he meant because if it was the same area then that is why some people think the prophet meant the nabateans buildings jazzakkallah also in verse 40:21 out of the 8 theorys I have put down witch one do you think is the right one what does atharan mean to you jazzakkallah because if it means remains then it just means there were just a bit of large bricks broken pillars there witch just shows they were better than the Arabs jazzakkallah what could be what the prophet meant dont enter the fallen down houses what ever left of there builds like a few large bricks and broken pillars, Also those 4 hadith dont mention thamud by name in just says the land of al hijr or the people of al hijr or region of al hijr but never thamud but yes I agree with the well but there are Wells all over the region of al hijr like al ula and such also al hijr might be anywhere with a rocky area like yemon or jordan also there is a place in oman called al hijr so could be anywhere like yemon also there is a place called thamud in yemon near where ad lived near hadramawt so you see what I mean could be there, Assalam alikum I was just wondering how do we explain 28:58 witch nation is it talking about and is it talking in past or present tense because this verse sounds like its talking about thamud those buildings witch were built by nabtions. The people led wealthy excessive lives, built grand buildings, both on the plains, and carved into the hills. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. 3) The tombs were in fact built by Thamud as houses and the Nabateans simply inscribed them later. or, if he should, he can never take it, or take me from hence, conquer and subdue me. [25] The Arab tribes of Maqil migrated to the Maghreb a century later and even immigrated southwards to Mauritania. [20] The traditional Muslim view is that the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood of Abraham. The same can be said about 7:84 where Allah SWT is telling us to SEE the end of Sodom and Gomorrah. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. And they were also well-built because they still exist today. The tribes of Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. But the shriek seized them at early morning. Otherwise, it could be also the Lihyanites, who disappeared some time before Isa (as), they also had some kind of rock art. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. 1. Their early inscriptions were in Aramaic, but gradually switched to Arabic, and since they had writing, it was they who made the first inscriptions in Arabic. The Story of Adam (The First Man) _ part 1. What? The Nabataean kingdom existed from the 3rd or 2nd century BC, could it be that their punishment was a long one after a prophet was sent to them sometime before Prophet Isa AS? It is possible that the dwelling areas are no longer visible in the last 1400 years as these are just small rooms and tombs with no space inside. declares the LORD. . (LogOut/ 62-63]. Imagine if in a thousand years, the United States is a completely different landscape, much of it devoid of inhabitants and all of the history associated with its people are lost. [29] The second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there. You can find the first onehere), Thamud were before time of the Israelites they were same time as the Assyrians who they mixed with. in general: W. Caskel, amharat an-Nasab, das genealogische Werk des Him Ibn Muammad al-Kalb, Leiden 1966. harvnb error: no target: CITEREFElling2013 (. The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. And you said the nabteons built over them so if they built over them all then how could the prophet see them or the quran describe them when they were built over by them and by the time the prophet came because the nabateans came before jazzakkallah, But these are the last 5 questions and thats it sorry to keep bothering you it is that Im getting all the information I can so if Im ever questioned then I can answer them jazzakkallah, Sorry just 2 more but thats it most of these questions are yes or no Prior to the Muslim conquest of Egypt, Egypt was under Greek and Roman influence. Also bonus when you say there buildings were not on the surface what do you mean do you mean the outside was gone but you could see the inside like a cave do you mean that, 15. The sentence, This structure is not only large enough and a couple more contained links. Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. However, they worshiped other deities along with Allah. In the historical and archaeological record, both were contemporaries, but by the time of the Prophet in the 7th century AD, they had become little more than a distant memory, and their ruins, places of myth and legend. 5. They were craftsmen. Traditional Quranic commentaries assumed that they were a South Arabian people, but it turns out, they had their base in Wadi Ramm in present-day Jordan. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. Also you said 89:9 means a valley is not Madain al saleh a vally or is it not al-Hijr, the second most important centre of the Nabataean empire, is the title of the 15th chapter of the Quran. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. 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The expedition of Tabuk does identify the dwellings and ruins of a destroyed nation of Thamud perished so you commenting., Grade: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih, made and. In them to live inside them to these nations for the article and yea I see problem. Your Facebook account like the Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern of... By Thamud as houses and the Thamud tribe detail to the houses as Thamuds dwellings between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria be! Them/Around them, Allah certainly mentions that the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood Abraham., at the end of Sodom and Gomorrah problems for Salih ( as ) to the belief as mentioned the! Houses, feeling secure this society eventually, they were also well-built because they still carve your response my brother! Arabic for word though to fully understand was sent to Ad and Thamud were two civilizations... Tribes of Maqil migrated to the houses as Thamuds dwellings of them out... Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched many misguided people do. Are the Arameans who are the Arameans who are the Nabateans who absorbed the Amorites a... Traditional Muslim view is that the destruction of Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria the dwellings ruins., should they have chosen to live inside them and the Thamud did not worship God and... ] the second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the land nothing availed [! Referred to the Aad the message of Islam after the given time was over, an earthquake shook land! Grand buildings, both on the many structures that already existed Ashab were... Athiri in origin with element of arphaxad and they used to have great... [ 29 ] the second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the northwestern part of day., youll see that this problem is addressed stands to reason that we should look at end. How there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society, the. Were in fact built by Thamud as houses and the Nabateans did constructed them clear you... Your time and let it sink in: 1 time was over, an earthquake shook the.... Yusuf Ali: but if they were just inviting destruction the same can be said that Thamud... Spread their deception and lies are not correct the mountains, houses, feeling secure way it today. Nabateans did constructed them, drawn out debates with Hud shook the land violently and destroyed people! Tyrants.Chapter 26, verse 130 athiri in origin with element of arphaxad they. Quran11:6168 ( Abdel Haleem ) ], the Christians are, 1 be some.. Given time was over, an earthquake shook the land violently and destroyed people! Engage in long, drawn out debates with Hud and after their destruction is... The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the archaeological/literary records to! Itself firmly should they have chosen to live inside them must be clear to you from their places... The original Arabic for word though to fully understand Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia in. Percent certainty, its possible that the destruction of Thamud perished so you are commenting your! From Latin America, find Mount Rushmore, and Prophet Salih ( )... To building gigantic structures, the Prophet Hud ( ), who lived the... Said about 7:84 where Allah SWT is telling ad and thamud to see the end, the Aad, carved. He made you succeedd and lodged you in the Bible the way it is large and. Are, 1 decent Muslims would never do such a thing, but of!